Why have so many of our politicians, Labour and Conservative, sought to introduce a market into health? I am not against a private element in the NHS, which may bring innovation and good practice, provided it is within the framework of a public service – complementary but not wrecking. But why have they been bewitched by a flawed US system? I worked in the US for a decade between the 1980s and 1990s and saw the misery of people who could not afford even to insure themselves against the catastrophe of serious ill health.
Listen you seriously demented hag.
No one, no one at all, is bewitched by the US system. There is no one, no one at all in the entire United Kingdom, who is suggesting that health care should be paid for by a system of private insurance. That payment method being the defining feature of the American system.
We are all right on track with the continuation of government funding of health care.
What is being argued for is that there be a multiplicity of providers of health care, that we have a market in the provision, not financing, of it. Like the French, German, Portuguese, blah, blah, blah health care systems.
So, please, will you fuck off with the lies.
You’re completely missing the point. The lies aren’t some artifact of her misunderstanding the debate, they are the entire contribution from the left. Because they have no substantive contribution to make, they need continuous propaganda to ensure their supporters don’t get distracted by the facts.
Just like there is no suggestion (except from the GPs to reduce missed appointments) that there should be any change in the ‘free at the point of delivery’ model but they keep insisting that any hint of private provision means payment before treatment.
SE is right; you can no more expect an old socialist to stop lying than you could expect a zoo-born and raised lion to catch its own food on the Serengeti…
My late father was not one normally given to bouts of intemperate, choleric rage, but I well remember many years ago walking past the LibDem speak-easy in Ryde, IOW and his seeing that Shirley Williams was standing as a candidate for something or other (could even have been MP; it was a long time ago but memory is hazy.) My God, the vituperation the old man heaped on her at the mere sight of her name. In later years I did some reading and realised why. The dreadful old baggage should have been boiled up for soap four decades back.
Please note: in most of the Continental Health systems the Government is not the soul payer (actually no Government is, it is the taxpayer) for health care, patients, except those on low/no incomes, are required to pay part of the costs either directly or via complimentary private insurance.
It works well.
In the US nobody is deprived of healthcare whether insured or not. Some elect not to be insured spendingt he money instead on a new car, holiday, iPad, etc.
Treatment is available to anyone uninsured, by State schemes or via Federal funded MediCare and MedicAid.
The difference is those insured have choice, those reliant on State or Federal schemes must take what is on offer – not unlike the UK’s NHS in which many people die because although they are supposedly insured, they cannot get treatment in time or are killed by staff who cannot be bothered to wash their hands or fetch patients a drink of water.
The standard of treatment in the US is exemplary.
Error for ‘sou’l read ‘sole’. Oops!
She was one of the philistines who wrecked the schools.
dearieme: indeed. That was by far the major source of the kindling that lit Pop’s wrath.
Like many socialists she helped force everyone else into the comprehensive school system while finding a backdoor way to get her own brood into something much better.
That’s all you really need to know about her.
If memory serves, the majority of US healthcare spending (just over 50%) is provided by the government in the form of Medicare and Medicaid: so she’s a liar in more than one way….
She only had one child, hardly a ‘brood’ and her daughter went to a selective school (which were hardly uncommon in 1970) before she became Education Minister and a comprehensive school after it chose to go independent.
As an American, I’d point out that a lot of the problems with our health insurance system are government-created, notably the fact that employer-provided health insurance is exempt from taxation.
The other thing I’d point out is the unstated meta-context that xenophobia suddenly becomes virtuous if it’s directed as Americans.
She did only have one child, but I think acted as guardian to two others.
“The other thing I’d point out is the unstated meta-context that xenophobia suddenly becomes virtuous if it’s directed as Americans.”
You clearly haven’t studied much of the left worldwide (including the real left in the US – i.e. not the Democrats). Hatred of the US (and Israel) isn’t just seen as virtuous, it is a mandatory membership criterion.
“As an American, I’d point out that a lot of the problems with our health insurance system are government-created, notably the fact that employer-provided health insurance is exempt from taxation.”
Is the underlying reason for the lunatic policy of making healthcare dependent on your job? This seems to negate a lot of the benefits of the market (in terms of consumer choice) and establishes a pernicious linkage – I’ve known people wary of changing job because their healthcare provider would change, and obviously have sympathy for the unemployed being left without cover. It didn’t seem a very effective system – although I hardly think imposing taxation on employer-provided insurance would be a vote-winner!!
The US healthcare system is not a properly functioning free market. If it was I should not be continually pestered by offers of “cheap Viagra” by “Canadian pharmacies”.
Secondly if US insurers provided good value for money, Lloyd’s would not be able to make profits by providing insurance on terms that state-registered insurers will not accept.
So, any reference to the USA when discussing what might happen if we had a market for healthcare is invalid.
The problem with the NHS is not so much having a state-funded system as the appalling quality of the management and the treatment of the patients as cattle by too many NHS managers.
#14:
As I understand it, the policy of employer-provided health insurance being a non-taxable benefit goes back to World War II when there was a wage freeze. Employers had to provide more benefits since they couldn’t have wages rise, and health insurance was one obvious benefit.
Thanks Ted S. Interesting.