Indeed, because the logical response to a failure to save a boy who received frequent contact with state services and was tortured to death over a period of months by his mother’s boyfriend is to remove children at birth from their parents.

That makes sense.

I’ve bookmarked this thread to quote next time there’s another Baby P scandal, when the usual suspects are blaming social workers for failing to intervene.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18098-murderer-with-aggression-genes-gets-sentence-cut.html

(…)

There are cases where timely sterilisation prevents a bigger disaster(and it would be immoral not to do so), and of course cases where it is just immoral and wrong.

I think the problem is that no-one applies common sense and compassion to problems anymore — hence we are demanding all those one-size-fits-all solutions because we reckon that people are too stupid to think for themselves, and by now this has become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I wish there was a place where one could donate funds to that persecuted couple btw…!

He was ‘New Liberal’ not a Gladstonian Liberal and that means you have accepted the lefts version of freedom which is that control can allow “Positive freedoms ” like the freedom not to be poor …etc. This sophistry has allowed the repulsive Liberals to face in both directions with a fig leaf of consistency ever since but if we call him a socialist we will make life easier.

On deciding whether this or that is leftwing or right wing I would make the point that whilst it reasonable to locate left wing politics by their proximity to Marxist derived ideas the forces of Conservatism have wished to retain a wide variety of societies . Muslims , Kremlin power brokers ,and American Indians can all be called conservative and have been .Iti s in the Nature of Conservatism to be particular it is in the nature if utopians to impose general solutions on them , like eugenics.
This makes it peculiarly difficult to locate right wing politics according to international and universal schemes . Fascism ,has played almost no part in British politics. In British context then I think we can safely say Eugenics has been adopted by the left as part of their scientific presumption , willingness to sacrifice means for ends ,relative disinterest in religious values and moral corruption …well just evil really

So let the last word be that Eugenics is left wing

I expect the vulnerable members of the bovine community are very grateful that inappropriate bovine behaviour has been bred out.

I wish I had a fiver for every time I’ve been howled down for suggesting that. Well said. An identifying characteristic of socialism is that a competing brand can’t be tolerated. One of the great propaganda victories of Marxist-Leninist socialists is persuading the world that Nazism was a right-wing political system.

The same goes for the BNP – socialist to the core. Just read their manifesto and economic beliefs – state control of everything. Madder than a box of chimps on PCP.

As for compulsory sterilisation, let’s not overlook the Canadians and their inglorious efforts into the 80’s.

Anyhow, I discussed the story with MrsBud, she was horrified and stated that it is wrong on so many levels but particularly made Brian’s point that the child is likely to suffer far more harm being taken from its family than being left with the family who can be helped as they require.

One of the major differences between social workers is when they enter the profession. MrsBud only studied in her 40s, after a lifetime of bringing up four children, running a couple of businesses and generally experiencing life. My mother did the same. In these circumstances you can look at the theories in the context of real life and recognise utter bollocks when it is taught to you.

However, if you study straight after school, you tend to believe everything you are taught. One of those things you are taught is that people can be sorted into boxes and that simple tick boxes enable you to diagnose mental problems.

To MrsBud and I, the range of normal behaviours is vast, but for those with the tick box training there is a sharp distinction between those who are deemed to be normal and those who are cursed as abnormal. I remember one such case where the father was considered to have sociopathic tendencies because he resented the threats of the state to take his baby away. MrsBud commented on that occasion that she took it as a positive that the father cared so.

Except Beveridge was not really a Leftist but a Liberal. Mind you, this is not just a policy of the Left. I believe the Libertarian-ish society of Iceland required people to support the indigent but at the price of castration. So maybe it is a Scandinavian thing not a Social Democrat thing.

See WinstonSmith33 for abundant evidence on this point.

Oh don’t be a fucking idiot (I’ll let the ‘elected by the people’ bit slide). Fascism is, under any reasonable interpretation of the case, an explicitly Leftist doctrine. This is scarcely a heterodox reading – it has a long and distinguished pedigree from Friedrich Hayek to Jonah Goldberg. All of the various breeds of totalitarianism that the 20th Century saw were an efflorescence of the Left. I’m a pretty extreme libertarian, and therefore cannot be pigeonholed on a single Left-Right axis. But I know Leftism when I see it, and to characterise eugenics as anything other is to betray a grossly ignorant ahistoricity in one’s writing. It might be a truism to point out that the word Nazi derives itself from National Socialist, but truisms have the uncomfortable property of being true.

As parents, and parents who grieved the loss of a baby, we can just begin to understand the absolute emptiness and devestation one would have if the state stole your children, leaving you with an empty home and empty life, and the knowledge that your children were being brought up by others.

I don’t believe in the death penalty, but I fully understand why those emotionally involved might want to revenge heinous crimes against themselves, and would not condemn them for doing so.

Firstly, you have to define “left” and “right”. As a single axis, it can only be defined by a single measure. What measure do you use to define that?

A ‘totalitarian’ (that’s the word you’re searching for, David) state may lean left or right, but it always leans on the people.

Geesh.

The UK needs to stop giving local political entities the power of life and death and to adopt a genuine Bill of Rights–to protect everyone from the all-powerful and omnipresent “village council.” Apparently, it also needs to learn a thing or two about totalitarianism and fascism–you’ve a heavy dose of both.

Its influence on Fabians and Beveridge are clear , where is your Conservative example ? Churchills remarks have nothing to do with it .
It is of piece with left wing contempt for private space and their supposedly scientific utopian beliefs .
If that is the case you are making you have made it very badly . The eugenic reasoning is that for the good of society one individual must suffer.
That logic can only apppeal to a collectivist and has done .
Tim is right to see its shadow in the presumption social workers but the attempt to replace parents with the state across a range of policies has the arrogant mind -set behind it .