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	<title>Comments on: Wee Wully again</title>
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	<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/11/04/wee-wully-again/</link>
	<description>It is all obvious or trivial except...</description>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/11/04/wee-wully-again/comment-page-1/#comment-36682</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:29:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=10850#comment-36682</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;Therefore these pesky owners want dividends paid rather than having the companies re-investing all of their earnings in said companies.&lt;/I&gt;

Emil, I&#039;ve no problem with companies serving the interests of their shareholders or with paying dividends. In fact, I wish companies paid more in dividends these days, as it is a more honest way to reward shareholders than the shenanigans many companies engage in to hype up their share price.

However, this doesn&#039;t mean the company has to pay out all profits as dividends. An otherwise sound business going bust because it is suddenly unable to borrow will not benefit the shareholders much. The archives on this blog have some wonderful examples of companies who borrowed lots of money just to do share buybacks, with bad results

http://jeffmatthewsisnotmakingthisup.blogspot.com/

Kay Tie, I agree about VCs. The company I work for has got into some trouble over the years with bank loans, but fortunately we could never deal with VCs, as we are unable to issue equity.

&lt;I&gt;Oh, and if we had to grow from retained profits we’d be dead (since we don’t have any profits, and even if we did they wouldn’t be enough to fund the growth we need to chase).&lt;/I&gt;

Startup? This is your situation now, but surely you plan to one day have sufficient profit to not just be self-sufficient financially, but to pay back the capital invested?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Therefore these pesky owners want dividends paid rather than having the companies re-investing all of their earnings in said companies.</i></p>
<p>Emil, I&#8217;ve no problem with companies serving the interests of their shareholders or with paying dividends. In fact, I wish companies paid more in dividends these days, as it is a more honest way to reward shareholders than the shenanigans many companies engage in to hype up their share price.</p>
<p>However, this doesn&#8217;t mean the company has to pay out all profits as dividends. An otherwise sound business going bust because it is suddenly unable to borrow will not benefit the shareholders much. The archives on this blog have some wonderful examples of companies who borrowed lots of money just to do share buybacks, with bad results</p>
<p><a href="http://jeffmatthewsisnotmakingthisup.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://jeffmatthewsisnotmakingthisup.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>Kay Tie, I agree about VCs. The company I work for has got into some trouble over the years with bank loans, but fortunately we could never deal with VCs, as we are unable to issue equity.</p>
<p><i>Oh, and if we had to grow from retained profits we’d be dead (since we don’t have any profits, and even if we did they wouldn’t be enough to fund the growth we need to chase).</i></p>
<p>Startup? This is your situation now, but surely you plan to one day have sufficient profit to not just be self-sufficient financially, but to pay back the capital invested?</p>
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		<title>By: Kay Tie</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/11/04/wee-wully-again/comment-page-1/#comment-36675</link>
		<dc:creator>Kay Tie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=10850#comment-36675</guid>
		<description>&quot;* leveraging the return on their equity
* tax benefits&quot;

Tax benefits? Eh? As a business owner with a SFLG loan and VC money, I&#039;ll take a loan over equity investment: it&#039;s &lt;i&gt;much&lt;/i&gt; cheaper capital (VCs usually look for an IRR of 40%/year in early-stage). Tax doesn&#039;t come into it.

Oh, and if we had to grow from retained profits we&#039;d be dead (since we don&#039;t have any profits, and even if we did they wouldn&#039;t be enough to fund the growth we need to chase).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;* leveraging the return on their equity<br />
* tax benefits&#8221;</p>
<p>Tax benefits? Eh? As a business owner with a SFLG loan and VC money, I&#8217;ll take a loan over equity investment: it&#8217;s <i>much</i> cheaper capital (VCs usually look for an IRR of 40%/year in early-stage). Tax doesn&#8217;t come into it.</p>
<p>Oh, and if we had to grow from retained profits we&#8217;d be dead (since we don&#8217;t have any profits, and even if we did they wouldn&#8217;t be enough to fund the growth we need to chase).</p>
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		<title>By: AntiCitizenOne</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/11/04/wee-wully-again/comment-page-1/#comment-36673</link>
		<dc:creator>AntiCitizenOne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=10850#comment-36673</guid>
		<description>Emil, generally Banks have bribed regulators to promote debt over saving, as debt makes them more money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emil, generally Banks have bribed regulators to promote debt over saving, as debt makes them more money.</p>
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		<title>By: Emil</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/11/04/wee-wully-again/comment-page-1/#comment-36666</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It&#039;s also because the company doesn&#039;t belong to the company but to the owners of the company and these pesky owners want to decide themselves in which projects they put their money. (You see company&#039;s exist to do what the owners of these companies want them do with the money they have invested in these companies.) Therefore these pesky owners want dividends paid rather than having the companies re-investing all of their earnings in said companies. (especially if re-investing them in the company means putting them in a bank account in order to have them for a rainy day, as money in bank accounts don&#039;t provide very good returns)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s also because the company doesn&#8217;t belong to the company but to the owners of the company and these pesky owners want to decide themselves in which projects they put their money. (You see company&#8217;s exist to do what the owners of these companies want them do with the money they have invested in these companies.) Therefore these pesky owners want dividends paid rather than having the companies re-investing all of their earnings in said companies. (especially if re-investing them in the company means putting them in a bank account in order to have them for a rainy day, as money in bank accounts don&#8217;t provide very good returns)</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/11/04/wee-wully-again/comment-page-1/#comment-36665</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=10850#comment-36665</guid>
		<description>Emil, I&#039;m guessing two of the main reasons are:
* leveraging the return on their equity
* tax benefits

I&#039;m sure debt is wonderful for making certain statistics look good in the annual report. I&#039;m just not sure it is always so great for the actual operations of the company, particularly in a bad economy when borrowing suddenly becomes harder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emil, I&#8217;m guessing two of the main reasons are:<br />
* leveraging the return on their equity<br />
* tax benefits</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure debt is wonderful for making certain statistics look good in the annual report. I&#8217;m just not sure it is always so great for the actual operations of the company, particularly in a bad economy when borrowing suddenly becomes harder.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Emil</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/11/04/wee-wully-again/comment-page-1/#comment-36660</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=10850#comment-36660</guid>
		<description>Ed: please go and read any book of corporate finance and your query will be discussed at  great length</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed: please go and read any book of corporate finance and your query will be discussed at  great length</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/11/04/wee-wully-again/comment-page-1/#comment-36659</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=10850#comment-36659</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t understand why businesses need to continually borrow money. At some point the company should be able to fund new investment from surplus cashflow and past savings. Much better than having a bank manager telling you what to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand why businesses need to continually borrow money. At some point the company should be able to fund new investment from surplus cashflow and past savings. Much better than having a bank manager telling you what to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Luis Enrique</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/11/04/wee-wully-again/comment-page-1/#comment-36657</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Enrique</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=10850#comment-36657</guid>
		<description>isn&#039;t &quot;dependency&quot; on debt usually described as a bad thing in the Groan?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>isn&#8217;t &#8220;dependency&#8221; on debt usually described as a bad thing in the Groan?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/11/04/wee-wully-again/comment-page-1/#comment-36652</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 11:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=10850#comment-36652</guid>
		<description>If I recall correctly from The State We&#039;re In he was quite keen on small banks in the US context, too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I recall correctly from The State We&#8217;re In he was quite keen on small banks in the US context, too?</p>
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