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	<title>Comments on: Anne Pettifor again</title>
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	<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/10/29/anne-pettifor-again/</link>
	<description>It is all obvious or trivial except...</description>
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		<title>By: The Remittance Man</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/10/29/anne-pettifor-again/comment-page-1/#comment-36373</link>
		<dc:creator>The Remittance Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 06:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=10680#comment-36373</guid>
		<description>The big difference between 1945 and now is the way things were spent.

At the end of the war the spending was shifted from running cost expenditure (paying millions of men in the armed forces, buying loads of shells, bullets tanks and so on) to building stuff (houses, a health service etc). On top of that, as noted above, all those demobbed squaddies went and started making stuff Britain could sell and therefore increase national revenue.

Compare that to the situation today. Gordon is spending like a madman but to what end? There are no great national investment schemes, no massive New Deal construction projects (the Olympic infrastructure hardly counts) - things which might just justify the huge expense in terms of Keynesian economics. Instead he&#039;s borrowing to keep his turkey army mobilised and hence out of revenue earning jobs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The big difference between 1945 and now is the way things were spent.</p>
<p>At the end of the war the spending was shifted from running cost expenditure (paying millions of men in the armed forces, buying loads of shells, bullets tanks and so on) to building stuff (houses, a health service etc). On top of that, as noted above, all those demobbed squaddies went and started making stuff Britain could sell and therefore increase national revenue.</p>
<p>Compare that to the situation today. Gordon is spending like a madman but to what end? There are no great national investment schemes, no massive New Deal construction projects (the Olympic infrastructure hardly counts) &#8211; things which might just justify the huge expense in terms of Keynesian economics. Instead he&#8217;s borrowing to keep his turkey army mobilised and hence out of revenue earning jobs.</p>
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		<title>By: Orde Solomons</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/10/29/anne-pettifor-again/comment-page-1/#comment-36359</link>
		<dc:creator>Orde Solomons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 17:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=10680#comment-36359</guid>
		<description>Just read Correlli Barnett (the most mind numbingly analytical economic historian writing for the general public) and you will see that Tim is quite right.  The post war labour government agonised about cutting up the limited fiscal cake
to award the British public a war winning prize, whilst desperately trying to hold on to Empire.  They had to run budget surpluses in order to pay back the Americans for the Marshal Aid (which most Brits deny the UK  ever getting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just read Correlli Barnett (the most mind numbingly analytical economic historian writing for the general public) and you will see that Tim is quite right.  The post war labour government agonised about cutting up the limited fiscal cake<br />
to award the British public a war winning prize, whilst desperately trying to hold on to Empire.  They had to run budget surpluses in order to pay back the Americans for the Marshal Aid (which most Brits deny the UK  ever getting.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Wadsworth</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/10/29/anne-pettifor-again/comment-page-1/#comment-36347</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Wadsworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=10680#comment-36347</guid>
		<description>Brian nails it. But most people cling to some vague beliefs for which there is no evidence whatsoever, including right wingers, Lib Dems, Greenies, NIMBYs, the lot.

I also fail to see why it is better for government to borrow and spend than it is to leave people alone. For the most part, people are itching to spend and invest in new stuff, like new houses, power stations, airport expansions, but the NIMBYs and Greenies won&#039;t let them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian nails it. But most people cling to some vague beliefs for which there is no evidence whatsoever, including right wingers, Lib Dems, Greenies, NIMBYs, the lot.</p>
<p>I also fail to see why it is better for government to borrow and spend than it is to leave people alone. For the most part, people are itching to spend and invest in new stuff, like new houses, power stations, airport expansions, but the NIMBYs and Greenies won&#8217;t let them.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian, follower of Deornoth</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/10/29/anne-pettifor-again/comment-page-1/#comment-36344</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian, follower of Deornoth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=10680#comment-36344</guid>
		<description>The Lefties don&#039;t actually believe any of this; they just wish it were true. And in modern politics, economics or science, if you shut your eyes and wish REALLY REALLY HARD that something is true, it becomes true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Lefties don&#8217;t actually believe any of this; they just wish it were true. And in modern politics, economics or science, if you shut your eyes and wish REALLY REALLY HARD that something is true, it becomes true.</p>
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		<title>By: dearieme</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/10/29/anne-pettifor-again/comment-page-1/#comment-36341</link>
		<dc:creator>dearieme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=10680#comment-36341</guid>
		<description>gareth, are you sure they spent millions on hospitals?  My understanding is that they spent bugger all; they nationalised the existing hospitals - i.e. stole them from the local authorities and charities - but built practically none. That&#039;s why decades later people were complaining about having to use &quot;Victorian hospitals&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gareth, are you sure they spent millions on hospitals?  My understanding is that they spent bugger all; they nationalised the existing hospitals &#8211; i.e. stole them from the local authorities and charities &#8211; but built practically none. That&#8217;s why decades later people were complaining about having to use &#8220;Victorian hospitals&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: AntiCitizenOne</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/10/29/anne-pettifor-again/comment-page-1/#comment-36339</link>
		<dc:creator>AntiCitizenOne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=10680#comment-36339</guid>
		<description>Maybe we should start borrowing to pay people to break windows and fix them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe we should start borrowing to pay people to break windows and fix them?</p>
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		<title>By: Gareth</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/10/29/anne-pettifor-again/comment-page-1/#comment-36333</link>
		<dc:creator>Gareth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=10680#comment-36333</guid>
		<description>A massive reduction in spending in the post war period because we weren&#039;t at war and we&#039;d stopped destroying things. In effect going from spending billions on armaments which then got blown up to spending millions on council houses, hospitals, schools and road, many of which are still standing today. Shit the bed. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/downchart_ukgs.php?year=1900_1950&amp;view=1&amp;expand=&amp;units=b&amp;fy=2009&amp;chart=F0-total&amp;bar=1&amp;stack=1&amp;size=m&amp;color=c&amp;title=Total%20Spending&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;How do you miss that?&lt;/a&gt; 

Plus of course demobbing brought millions of workers back into productive employment. If you&#039;ve cut your outgoings and started earning again you&#039;re going to do well aren&#039;t you.

I also seem to have missed the bit where she justifies wartime levels of debt when we are not at war.

Tim adds: I&#039;ve not missed it, simply ignored it, for it&#039;s irrelevant to her argument. For her argument is that at the moment we should be borrowing more money to be spent by hte government. When people say &quot;Hey! but we&#039;ll go bust!&quot; she says &quot;But look at post WWII&quot;. And, if they had been borrowing post WWII she might have a point. But they weren&#039;t: they were fiscally contractionary, they were paying back debt.

That&#039;s why her argument falls. It&#039;s nothing to do with &quot;what&quot; government spent the money on: it&#039;s to do with the balance between tax collections and spending and thus the influence that gap has on hte public debt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A massive reduction in spending in the post war period because we weren&#8217;t at war and we&#8217;d stopped destroying things. In effect going from spending billions on armaments which then got blown up to spending millions on council houses, hospitals, schools and road, many of which are still standing today. Shit the bed. <a href="http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/downchart_ukgs.php?year=1900_1950&amp;view=1&amp;expand=&amp;units=b&amp;fy=2009&amp;chart=F0-total&amp;bar=1&amp;stack=1&amp;size=m&amp;color=c&amp;title=Total%20Spending" rel="nofollow">How do you miss that?</a> </p>
<p>Plus of course demobbing brought millions of workers back into productive employment. If you&#8217;ve cut your outgoings and started earning again you&#8217;re going to do well aren&#8217;t you.</p>
<p>I also seem to have missed the bit where she justifies wartime levels of debt when we are not at war.</p>
<p>Tim adds: I&#8217;ve not missed it, simply ignored it, for it&#8217;s irrelevant to her argument. For her argument is that at the moment we should be borrowing more money to be spent by hte government. When people say &#8220;Hey! but we&#8217;ll go bust!&#8221; she says &#8220;But look at post WWII&#8221;. And, if they had been borrowing post WWII she might have a point. But they weren&#8217;t: they were fiscally contractionary, they were paying back debt.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why her argument falls. It&#8217;s nothing to do with &#8220;what&#8221; government spent the money on: it&#8217;s to do with the balance between tax collections and spending and thus the influence that gap has on hte public debt.</p>
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		<title>By: Luis Enrique</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/10/29/anne-pettifor-again/comment-page-1/#comment-36330</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Enrique</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=10680#comment-36330</guid>
		<description>sane version of argument, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4679c2be-aed0-11de-96d7-00144feabdc0.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sane version of argument, <a href="http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4679c2be-aed0-11de-96d7-00144feabdc0.html" rel="nofollow">here</a></p>
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