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	<title>Comments on: Private schools and the Charities Commission</title>
	<atom:link href="http://timworstall.com/2009/07/14/private-schools-and-the-charities-commission/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/07/14/private-schools-and-the-charities-commission/</link>
	<description>It is all obvious or trivial except...</description>
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		<title>By: KMcC</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/07/14/private-schools-and-the-charities-commission/comment-page-1/#comment-32177</link>
		<dc:creator>KMcC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:19:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=8559#comment-32177</guid>
		<description>I had the immense good fortune to be one of the first Assisted Places children in the UK. Changed my life. God bless you Lady Thatcher (even though I&#039;m an atheist)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had the immense good fortune to be one of the first Assisted Places children in the UK. Changed my life. God bless you Lady Thatcher (even though I&#8217;m an atheist)</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/07/14/private-schools-and-the-charities-commission/comment-page-1/#comment-32101</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 06:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=8559#comment-32101</guid>
		<description>My old school now charges 9K a year. 

Some charity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My old school now charges 9K a year. </p>
<p>Some charity.</p>
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		<title>By: Monty</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/07/14/private-schools-and-the-charities-commission/comment-page-1/#comment-32092</link>
		<dc:creator>Monty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=8559#comment-32092</guid>
		<description>Ian, thanks for the link.  I really wish something like that would happen over here.

In fact, the charitable aspect of private education is primarily paid out by the parents who pay the fees. Because they have paid twice over for the education of each child. The state benefits from their non-takeup of a school place, and reimburses nothing.

The state sector has ample information on how many school-age children there are in any area. And it is true that some of those children will not take up their places. Yet we still manage to have thousands of kids travelling many miles each day because there is no local school place for them at all. 

No no bloody marks to the state sector yet again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, thanks for the link.  I really wish something like that would happen over here.</p>
<p>In fact, the charitable aspect of private education is primarily paid out by the parents who pay the fees. Because they have paid twice over for the education of each child. The state benefits from their non-takeup of a school place, and reimburses nothing.</p>
<p>The state sector has ample information on how many school-age children there are in any area. And it is true that some of those children will not take up their places. Yet we still manage to have thousands of kids travelling many miles each day because there is no local school place for them at all. </p>
<p>No no bloody marks to the state sector yet again.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Bennett</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/07/14/private-schools-and-the-charities-commission/comment-page-1/#comment-32078</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=8559#comment-32078</guid>
		<description>Kay Tie&#039;s comment in the Times piece (&quot;pay for all children to go to private schools and to shut down the LEA etc&quot;) is pretty much what happened in New Zealand; in that case, however, the schools were still state-owned, but run by a board elected by parents of its pupils. 4,500 schools changed to this system on the same day.

Details &lt;a href=&#039;https://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis/archive/issue.asp?year=2004&amp;month=04&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kay Tie&#8217;s comment in the Times piece (&#8220;pay for all children to go to private schools and to shut down the LEA etc&#8221;) is pretty much what happened in New Zealand; in that case, however, the schools were still state-owned, but run by a board elected by parents of its pupils. 4,500 schools changed to this system on the same day.</p>
<p>Details <a href='https://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis/archive/issue.asp?year=2004&amp;month=04' rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Potarto</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/07/14/private-schools-and-the-charities-commission/comment-page-1/#comment-32077</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Potarto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=8559#comment-32077</guid>
		<description>&quot;monopolise opportunity&quot;

An amazing phrase.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man would have it poked out for monopolising vision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;monopolise opportunity&#8221;</p>
<p>An amazing phrase.</p>
<p>In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man would have it poked out for monopolising vision.</p>
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		<title>By: Falco</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/07/14/private-schools-and-the-charities-commission/comment-page-1/#comment-32076</link>
		<dc:creator>Falco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=8559#comment-32076</guid>
		<description>JB - If we had to pay for tables through taxes, (enough that everyone is entitled to one government standard table), but some people don&#039;t take up the government option but pay, on top of their tax contribution, to buy a table elsewhere, then a private table selling company would be satisfying a public good and have a reasonable argument for charitable status.  The only thing the charity commission should be ensuring is that the company is selling tables.

An alternative plan would be to remove charitable status from all schools but to give a tax rebate to the equivalent cost, (NB not value), of a state education, (or a voucher if you prefer). 

Newmania: &quot;Well it is far from clear to me why an organisation which exists specifically to cement class advantage and monopolise opportunity should have any charitable status at all&quot;

Missing the point with spectacular abandon there. These organisations exist specifically to provide education. Your objection is like complaining that a charity to help children from sink estates exists exclusively to help irritating lefty tossers spout bollocks in the media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JB &#8211; If we had to pay for tables through taxes, (enough that everyone is entitled to one government standard table), but some people don&#8217;t take up the government option but pay, on top of their tax contribution, to buy a table elsewhere, then a private table selling company would be satisfying a public good and have a reasonable argument for charitable status.  The only thing the charity commission should be ensuring is that the company is selling tables.</p>
<p>An alternative plan would be to remove charitable status from all schools but to give a tax rebate to the equivalent cost, (NB not value), of a state education, (or a voucher if you prefer). </p>
<p>Newmania: &#8220;Well it is far from clear to me why an organisation which exists specifically to cement class advantage and monopolise opportunity should have any charitable status at all&#8221;</p>
<p>Missing the point with spectacular abandon there. These organisations exist specifically to provide education. Your objection is like complaining that a charity to help children from sink estates exists exclusively to help irritating lefty tossers spout bollocks in the media.</p>
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		<title>By: Kay Tie</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/07/14/private-schools-and-the-charities-commission/comment-page-1/#comment-32064</link>
		<dc:creator>Kay Tie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=8559#comment-32064</guid>
		<description>I am sure it&#039;s possible to liquidate and incorporate - they should talk to the GMG&#039;s lawyers about how to do that offshore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am sure it&#8217;s possible to liquidate and incorporate &#8211; they should talk to the GMG&#8217;s lawyers about how to do that offshore.</p>
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		<title>By: john b</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/07/14/private-schools-and-the-charities-commission/comment-page-1/#comment-32060</link>
		<dc:creator>john b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=8559#comment-32060</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not a wonderful demolition, for precisely the reason Ian gives - table makers don&#039;t get tax benefits on the basis that table making is useful (despite the fact that it obviously is), whereas private schools do.

If table makers wanted to get tax breaks compared to chair makers, then they&#039;d also need to jump through ridiculous hoops to justify them...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not a wonderful demolition, for precisely the reason Ian gives &#8211; table makers don&#8217;t get tax benefits on the basis that table making is useful (despite the fact that it obviously is), whereas private schools do.</p>
<p>If table makers wanted to get tax breaks compared to chair makers, then they&#8217;d also need to jump through ridiculous hoops to justify them&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Kay Tie</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/07/14/private-schools-and-the-charities-commission/comment-page-1/#comment-32052</link>
		<dc:creator>Kay Tie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 09:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=8559#comment-32052</guid>
		<description>If fees have to rise anyway why not bite the bullet and incorporate, charge VAT and be out from under the Government&#039;s jackboot?

Tim adds: Note the &quot;you have to liquidate&quot; part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If fees have to rise anyway why not bite the bullet and incorporate, charge VAT and be out from under the Government&#8217;s jackboot?</p>
<p>Tim adds: Note the &#8220;you have to liquidate&#8221; part.</p>
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		<title>By: lusakajoe</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/07/14/private-schools-and-the-charities-commission/comment-page-1/#comment-32041</link>
		<dc:creator>lusakajoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 08:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=8559#comment-32041</guid>
		<description>Wonderful demolition of Charity Commission arguments in The Times this morning here using example of kitchen tables : 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article6702855.ece</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderful demolition of Charity Commission arguments in The Times this morning here using example of kitchen tables : </p>
<p><a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article6702855.ece" rel="nofollow">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article6702855.ece</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ian B</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/07/14/private-schools-and-the-charities-commission/comment-page-1/#comment-32038</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 08:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=8559#comment-32038</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t for the life of me ever comprehend why school businesses are charities. But then I can&#039;t figure out why most of the things we call charities are called charities.

These schools, best of luck to them, are businesses selling a service. Frankly, if they want a benefit from the government (tax freeness) they&#039;re asking for all they get. They&#039;re not doing anything charitable. They&#039;re in business for crying out loud. Why the feck don&#039;t they tell the government to piss off, and pay taxes like every other business has to?

I daresay that somebody will say their customers are having to pay for education twice or something like that, but it&#039;s a silly argument. We&#039;re all paying through the nose for everything the government does. Single people are forced to pay for the schooling of other peoples&#039; children. It&#039;s just what living under a statist system is like.

Really, come on. These are businesses selling a luxury product to the luxury market. Charities? My arse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t for the life of me ever comprehend why school businesses are charities. But then I can&#8217;t figure out why most of the things we call charities are called charities.</p>
<p>These schools, best of luck to them, are businesses selling a service. Frankly, if they want a benefit from the government (tax freeness) they&#8217;re asking for all they get. They&#8217;re not doing anything charitable. They&#8217;re in business for crying out loud. Why the feck don&#8217;t they tell the government to piss off, and pay taxes like every other business has to?</p>
<p>I daresay that somebody will say their customers are having to pay for education twice or something like that, but it&#8217;s a silly argument. We&#8217;re all paying through the nose for everything the government does. Single people are forced to pay for the schooling of other peoples&#8217; children. It&#8217;s just what living under a statist system is like.</p>
<p>Really, come on. These are businesses selling a luxury product to the luxury market. Charities? My arse.</p>
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		<title>By: Newmania</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/07/14/private-schools-and-the-charities-commission/comment-page-1/#comment-32036</link>
		<dc:creator>Newmania</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 07:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=8559#comment-32036</guid>
		<description>Well it is far from clear to me why an organisation which exists specifically  to  cement class advantage and  monopolise opportunity should have any charitable status at all so we shall not  shed to many tears for all the poor little Etonians . Have you not observed  how  conspicuously they are  suffering as social mobility halts and they  occupy the Nation like so many gaping beaked cuckoos ?  Quite .

It is not good argument for   a    low tax and free society that   access to high earnings is fixed in childhood as it increasingly is . One response is to bring back Grammar schools and in all but name that’s where we are going  and this will accelerate  when the Conservatives take power. Academies  wholeheartedly independent ( not  under Labour’s boot ) , free schools and rigorous streaming are all getting on the way  but bursaries  from Private schools is an excellent  part of the  scene  handled correctly and  not punitively  I would  like to see the return of direct grants  to complement the  school places as ion the old days .

You may be right that there is some bureaucratic muddle here but your knee jerk defence of the privileged  is simply inviting the red hoard  to sweep down from their mountain  homes and rain devastation on the land .

Irresponsible Worstall ,  take 200 lines

 “ I must not defend privilege  under the guise of Libertarianism 
“ I must not defend privilege  under the guise of Libertarianism 
“ I must not defend privilege  under the guise of Libertarianism 


Etc. (200 times )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well it is far from clear to me why an organisation which exists specifically  to  cement class advantage and  monopolise opportunity should have any charitable status at all so we shall not  shed to many tears for all the poor little Etonians . Have you not observed  how  conspicuously they are  suffering as social mobility halts and they  occupy the Nation like so many gaping beaked cuckoos ?  Quite .</p>
<p>It is not good argument for   a    low tax and free society that   access to high earnings is fixed in childhood as it increasingly is . One response is to bring back Grammar schools and in all but name that’s where we are going  and this will accelerate  when the Conservatives take power. Academies  wholeheartedly independent ( not  under Labour’s boot ) , free schools and rigorous streaming are all getting on the way  but bursaries  from Private schools is an excellent  part of the  scene  handled correctly and  not punitively  I would  like to see the return of direct grants  to complement the  school places as ion the old days .</p>
<p>You may be right that there is some bureaucratic muddle here but your knee jerk defence of the privileged  is simply inviting the red hoard  to sweep down from their mountain  homes and rain devastation on the land .</p>
<p>Irresponsible Worstall ,  take 200 lines</p>
<p> “ I must not defend privilege  under the guise of Libertarianism<br />
“ I must not defend privilege  under the guise of Libertarianism<br />
“ I must not defend privilege  under the guise of Libertarianism </p>
<p>Etc. (200 times )</p>
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		<title>By: Bishop Hill</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/07/14/private-schools-and-the-charities-commission/comment-page-1/#comment-32035</link>
		<dc:creator>Bishop Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 07:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=8559#comment-32035</guid>
		<description>I think private schools should throw out the children of Labour party members.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think private schools should throw out the children of Labour party members.</p>
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