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	<title>Comments on: Dell in Ireland</title>
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	<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/01/08/dell-in-ireland/</link>
	<description>It is all obvious or trivial except...</description>
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		<title>By: Dan Ryan</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/01/08/dell-in-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-25858</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=5632#comment-25858</guid>
		<description>And while I&#039;m being pedantic.... :)

The 1,900 layoffs are about 60% of Dell&#039;s current 2,900 employment in Limerick.  So 40% of staff will still be employed, and they account for a lot more than 40% of the wages and salaries (what&#039;s going is mostly assembly stuff).  So less of a disaster than it appears, unless you&#039;re one of the 1,900 of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And while I&#8217;m being pedantic&#8230;. <img src='http://timworstall.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The 1,900 layoffs are about 60% of Dell&#8217;s current 2,900 employment in Limerick.  So 40% of staff will still be employed, and they account for a lot more than 40% of the wages and salaries (what&#8217;s going is mostly assembly stuff).  So less of a disaster than it appears, unless you&#8217;re one of the 1,900 of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Ryan</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/01/08/dell-in-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-25857</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:00:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=5632#comment-25857</guid>
		<description>The standard practice in Ireland is to refer to the state as &quot;Ireland&quot;, or &quot;Republic of Ireland&quot; for those occasions when one needs to be careful about the distinction with Northern Ireland.  Nobody in Ireland says &quot;Eire&quot; unless they are speaking Gaelic.

The norm in British government circles, which seems to have been long ago adopted by UK newspapers, but not the average person on the street, is to say &quot;Eire&quot;.   I&#039;d assume it was a battle of common usage against official usage that the newspapers didn&#039;t feel like annoying their government sources over.

It&#039;s an unfortunate pedanticism, but not one that&#039;s unique to this blog.

Tim adds: fair do&#039;s. I, as very much an Englishman who also has the right to Republic of Ireland citizenship through descent, find it a convenient method of distinguishing. Ireland is the island, Ulster is, umm, well, the six counties rather than the correct nine, Eire is the Republic. As with the Red Queen, words mean what I say they mean......:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The standard practice in Ireland is to refer to the state as &#8220;Ireland&#8221;, or &#8220;Republic of Ireland&#8221; for those occasions when one needs to be careful about the distinction with Northern Ireland.  Nobody in Ireland says &#8220;Eire&#8221; unless they are speaking Gaelic.</p>
<p>The norm in British government circles, which seems to have been long ago adopted by UK newspapers, but not the average person on the street, is to say &#8220;Eire&#8221;.   I&#8217;d assume it was a battle of common usage against official usage that the newspapers didn&#8217;t feel like annoying their government sources over.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s an unfortunate pedanticism, but not one that&#8217;s unique to this blog.</p>
<p>Tim adds: fair do&#8217;s. I, as very much an Englishman who also has the right to Republic of Ireland citizenship through descent, find it a convenient method of distinguishing. Ireland is the island, Ulster is, umm, well, the six counties rather than the correct nine, Eire is the Republic. As with the Red Queen, words mean what I say they mean&#8230;&#8230;:-)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Jennings</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/01/08/dell-in-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-25854</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Jennings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=5632#comment-25854</guid>
		<description>&gt;$ 9 billion turnover from one factory 
&gt;and 4,500 jobs? Even that’s a stretch, 
&gt;don’t you think?

Assume the computers there cost $750 each, and you get about 12 million computers a year. Assume that all the computers Dell sells in Europe are assembled there, and it seems a reasonable number. That&#039;s about 2500 computers per employee, which clearly indicates that whatever goes on in Ireland is highly automated. This is to be expected, because all the labour intensive stuff is done in China and other places where labour is cheap. So for the numbers to make sense, what is done in Ireland is highly automated, not terribly value added, and only done in Ireland for tax reasons.

That&#039;s what I would have thought anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;$ 9 billion turnover from one factory<br />
&gt;and 4,500 jobs? Even that’s a stretch,<br />
&gt;don’t you think?</p>
<p>Assume the computers there cost $750 each, and you get about 12 million computers a year. Assume that all the computers Dell sells in Europe are assembled there, and it seems a reasonable number. That&#8217;s about 2500 computers per employee, which clearly indicates that whatever goes on in Ireland is highly automated. This is to be expected, because all the labour intensive stuff is done in China and other places where labour is cheap. So for the numbers to make sense, what is done in Ireland is highly automated, not terribly value added, and only done in Ireland for tax reasons.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what I would have thought anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/01/08/dell-in-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-25847</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=5632#comment-25847</guid>
		<description>I think it comes from this report, see table 2 towards the end but also the text

http://www.ucc.ie/en/iss21/issp/DocumentFile,56999,en.pdf

What is &quot;5% of GDP&quot; is company revenue (and 20% for the top 10), which is enormous, something like $2mn per worker for Dell or $7mn in the case of Microsoft. 

I think this is that high due to things like tax mininimisation and transfer pricing which I don&#039;t understand. Clearly it&#039;s not the same as GDP, but on the other hand I&#039;m not sure of the interaction as it might explain some of the discrepancy between GDP and GNP?

Incidentally, as I always say, I think if you are looking at a factory&#039;s contribution to GDP it is not just profits, but wages too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it comes from this report, see table 2 towards the end but also the text</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ucc.ie/en/iss21/issp/DocumentFile,56999,en.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ucc.ie/en/iss21/issp/DocumentFile,56999,en.pdf</a></p>
<p>What is &#8220;5% of GDP&#8221; is company revenue (and 20% for the top 10), which is enormous, something like $2mn per worker for Dell or $7mn in the case of Microsoft. </p>
<p>I think this is that high due to things like tax mininimisation and transfer pricing which I don&#8217;t understand. Clearly it&#8217;s not the same as GDP, but on the other hand I&#8217;m not sure of the interaction as it might explain some of the discrepancy between GDP and GNP?</p>
<p>Incidentally, as I always say, I think if you are looking at a factory&#8217;s contribution to GDP it is not just profits, but wages too.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/01/08/dell-in-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-25846</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=5632#comment-25846</guid>
		<description>A google search suggests the Times, BBC, Scotsman, Herald, Irish Times , FT (!), etc all use it, so presumably there&#039;s a single source.

Tim adds: Found it. Press Association report. Have written to the journo concerned.

Update: from the journo, he got confused with GDP and exports. Which sounds about right, although I&#039;d think Dell are also close to 5% of imports as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A google search suggests the Times, BBC, Scotsman, Herald, Irish Times , FT (!), etc all use it, so presumably there&#8217;s a single source.</p>
<p>Tim adds: Found it. Press Association report. Have written to the journo concerned.</p>
<p>Update: from the journo, he got confused with GDP and exports. Which sounds about right, although I&#8217;d think Dell are also close to 5% of imports as well.</p>
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		<title>By: john b</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/01/08/dell-in-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-25840</link>
		<dc:creator>john b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=5632#comment-25840</guid>
		<description>Oddly enough, the Irish constitution is not a legally binding document determining how one must refer to the 26 counties. And calling them &#039;Ireland&#039; is obviously bloody stupid, because that&#039;s a word that refers to the 32 counties.

(the DDR wasn&#039;t officially called East Germany. Did you &#039;correct&#039;, in the sense of &#039;pedantically assert stupid things about&#039;, people who referred to it thusly?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oddly enough, the Irish constitution is not a legally binding document determining how one must refer to the 26 counties. And calling them &#8216;Ireland&#8217; is obviously bloody stupid, because that&#8217;s a word that refers to the 32 counties.</p>
<p>(the DDR wasn&#8217;t officially called East Germany. Did you &#8216;correct&#8217;, in the sense of &#8216;pedantically assert stupid things about&#8217;, people who referred to it thusly?)</p>
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		<title>By: Quite right on 5% of GDP, but...</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/01/08/dell-in-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-25838</link>
		<dc:creator>Quite right on 5% of GDP, but...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:14:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=5632#comment-25838</guid>
		<description>A quick legal correction though to your use to the term &quot;Eire&quot;. The constitution declares the name of the state to be &quot;Ireland&quot; in the English language. Eire is simply the name in Irish, rather than a way to refer to the 26 counties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A quick legal correction though to your use to the term &#8220;Eire&#8221;. The constitution declares the name of the state to be &#8220;Ireland&#8221; in the English language. Eire is simply the name in Irish, rather than a way to refer to the 26 counties.</p>
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		<title>By: dearieme</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2009/01/08/dell-in-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-25826</link>
		<dc:creator>dearieme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/?p=5632#comment-25826</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve heard people on the Beeb refer to GDP as &quot;the size of the economy&quot;.   But since they seem always to use it to compare with some annual sum, their bleatings are what we technical types might call &quot;dimensionally inconsistent&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard people on the Beeb refer to GDP as &#8220;the size of the economy&#8221;.   But since they seem always to use it to compare with some annual sum, their bleatings are what we technical types might call &#8220;dimensionally inconsistent&#8221;.</p>
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