No, he understands the point. He throws insults because he has no answer to it…

It could be claimed to be anti-Turkish to claim the genocide took place. Indeed, the Turks claim that people asserting the Armenian genocide took place are doing so because they hate Turks and muslims. An allegation of xenophobia. It’s quite realistic to envision a Turkish police official being so annoyed by an opinion on a blog that he issues an arrest warrant.

“Clown.”

You throw insults but you still haven’t understood the point. Mr. Toben is ALREADY IN JAIL. You can say “oh, the Holocaust isn’t xenophobia and racism” yet your opinion counts for fuck all: he’s in jail. If he’s lucky the court will free him next week. I say “lucky” because the court isn’t permitted to examine the evidence of the matter (it has to take on trust the statements in the arrest warrant: the warrant in Tobin’s case states the crimes took place in Germany, so the court must accept that; similarly, a future Turkish EAW could assert that a blog posting is xenophobic and the court would have to accept that).

Someone correct me but didn’t the Supreme Court strike down all sodomy laws in the US?

No doubt we will have some really neat issues arising from this. Paedophilia and a common age of consent across Europe perhaps? Insulting the dignity of the Turkish state in the end? But the next battle may well be privacy. France has much tougher laws. British Courts are inventing such rights (ie seizing power in a slow motion coup) and so might be sympathetic. We will see.

“Xenophobia and racism.”

You can stick to your pollyana views all you like but the fact remains that Mr. Toben is IN JAIL RIGHT NOW because of this particular carve-out.

The silence on the part of the rest of the politicians is telling….

Please explain which of the 32 categories ‘not denying the Armenian genocide’ would fall under? (clue: none of them).

So if and when Turkey joins the EU, those of us who criticise the genocide of the Armenians and Assyrians can be hauled out of England and transported to Turkish prisons.

Disgusting….

Indeed. Tim has several times quoted Larry Flint that he’s the litmus test of freedom. So if twats like Toben are protected then you can be sure that you’ll be protected when dishing out criticism of Mandelson, Brown and Putin (although not without risking a Polonium Panini with the last of those).

From the link:

“2. The following offences, if they are punishable in the issuing Member State by a custodial sentence or a detention order for a maximum period of at least three years and as they are defined by the law of the issuing Member State, shall, under the terms of this Framework Decision and without verification of the double criminality of the act, give rise to surrender pursuant to a European arrest warrant:

“[blah blah] racism and xenophobia [blah blah]”

But I’ll tell you what: place a bet on whether our magistrates will set him free or put him on a plane. If the former, I’ll take your reassurances. If the latter, you’ll accept that we should all be afraid.

No, it isn’t.

No. To quote the European Commission:

“The European ArrestWarrant abolishes dual criminality for 32 categories of serious wrongdoing”

Holocaust denial is one of these 32 categories.

http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/key_issues/european_arrest_warrant/eaw_1204_en.pdf

“It is hard to tell from the article but are the Germans claiming that they have proof that he broke German law while in Germany?”

Unfortunately, there is no need to examine the evidence at all: the magistrates have to trust that the Germans have the evidence that the law was broken in Germany. From the weasel-wording of the warrant, it appears that the basis of this claim is that the web site is viewable in Germany and Austria and therefore the crime has occurred in Germany. This crucial point cannot be debated in court in the UK: it has to be raised in a court in Germany as part of the trial, potentially after a year in pre-trial custody.

If not, be prepared to be shipped off to Saudi for a good dose of the cane if you have been downloading porn lately. Or, for that matter, the light-in-the-loafers crowd should everywhere should get ready for extradition to the US states where sodomy is still illegal.

Incitement to racial hatred *is* a crime in the UK, and people *have* been prosecuted for it for publishing Holocaust-denying antisemitic material.

Tim adds: No, the EAW does not require double criminality. That’s what is so frightening about it.