Comments on: David Selbourne

By: Kate

Kate — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 06:23:49 +0000

John Cramer:
Let them carouse until they harm someone, just like we leave the potential robber alone until they rob someone.

By: Exile

Exile — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 01:47:34 +0000

He’s being serious, and really believes what he writes. Until he writes something else and then he believes that.

As a Ruskin don he was the great Marxist guru who managed to fool quite a few people into taking him seriously. Then he conjured up a scandal by attacking the Wapping strikers, using the Sunday Times to do it.

Now he advocates exactly the sort of society that he attacked in the Sunday Times article.

I commented on this at the Guardian, but the post was deleted. The only person who could have taken offence was Dave Selbourne himself. Anyway, I have reposted the rant at my own blog.

The man makes my piles itch.

By: john cramer

john cramer — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 00:03:56 +0000

How do you deal with those whose ‘freedom’ is not yours?
If their freedom is to drunkenly carouse all night – then what. Who prevails -them or you?

By: ukliberty

ukliberty — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 17:16:49 +0000

Well said Tim!

Dan: “A lot depends on what duties you are asked to perform, and who is asked to perform them. If the duties are simply to observe the law and pay ones taxes, I don’t think it’s too controversial.”

I’m not sure how one can ‘perform’ observing the law or pay one’s taxes. I think the problem here is with the word ‘perform’ – it implies some proactivity and in return you will be allowed some rights. It’s not at all in line with the (clearly right!) idea that “Liberty is defined as the right to do as one pleases” – and indeed Labour have their own definition, which is “Liberty is the right to do something if Labour allows it”.

The Government and its supporters are confusing things, perhaps deliberately so, and they have given us little to no information on what duties we will be expected to ‘perform’.

See Jack Straw for example on Thomas Paine – I get the impression from Straw that if you expect (say) freedom of speech you should be doing some sort of community service or pay extra tax, whereas Paine simply said that if you expect freedom of speech you should be willing to stand up for others having freedom of speech too.

(Paine also said we had a duty to point out the defects of every government and constitution.)

By: Philip Thomas

Philip Thomas — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 17:10:52 +0000

Great last line, Tim.

By: Recusant

Recusant — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 15:31:25 +0000

The trouble comes when what our dear Hampstead left-wing mediacrats think is harming no-one else – because it doesn’t harm them – actually causes immense damage to those they don’t see, hear or even know. One can think of their long destruction of the concept of the family, duties, obligations and historically proven institutions leading to the chaos that now besets large swathes of the old working class.

Libertarianism has to ensure it doesn’t became merely solipsistic utilitarianism.

By: Dan

Dan — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 15:13:26 +0000

A lot depends on what duties you are asked to perform, and who is asked to perform them.
If the duties are simply to observe the law and pay ones taxes, I don’t think it’s too controversial.
Where people derive more from the State than I do – income and housing, for instance – they might be asked to perform more onerous civic duties. Again, not too much of a problem?

By: Gene

Gene — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 15:02:49 +0000

“The left’s social ideals have been displaced by an open-ended libertarianism”?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Wow, give me some of whatever he’s smoking.

By: devilskitchen

devilskitchen — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 15:00:41 +0000

Tim,

It’s “demesne”, I believe…