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	<title>Comments on: Dear Mr. Bliss</title>
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	<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/</link>
	<description>It is all obvious or trivial except...</description>
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		<title>By: Kay Tie</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/comment-page-1/#comment-9284</link>
		<dc:creator>Kay Tie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/#comment-9284</guid>
		<description>Deffeyes&#039; book on oil has a good introduction to the geology and mechanics of oil extraction. And it&#039;s got some very interesting analysis of peak oil production (which he predicted around the end of 2005, and he might be right).

http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Oil-View-Hubberts-Peak/dp/0809029561</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deffeyes&#8217; book on oil has a good introduction to the geology and mechanics of oil extraction. And it&#8217;s got some very interesting analysis of peak oil production (which he predicted around the end of 2005, and he might be right).</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Oil-View-Hubberts-Peak/dp/0809029561" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Oil-View-Hubberts-Peak/dp/0809029561</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jim Bliss</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/comment-page-1/#comment-9272</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Bliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 02:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/#comment-9272</guid>
		<description>Mark, please forgive me if I&#039;m wrong, but I&#039;m not sure you fully grasp the geology of oil wells. The oil does not exist in a large pool, through which a gas released below could &quot;bubble up&quot;. Rather, it exists as billions of individual droplets suspended under extremely high pressure within a porous stratum of rock. This porous rock is sandwiched between non-porous structures (hence why very specific geological conditions are required for an oil well / field to form) and when the top layer (the cap rock) is breached, the oil rushes upwards because of the pressure.

Over a period of time, however, the pressure tails off and it becomes increasingly difficult to extract the oil. Gas injection is then used to recreate / maintain enough pressure to continue pumping. This gas is injected below the reservoir (as Tim Newman pointed out) and succeeds in forcing many more of those tiny droplets towards the surface.

It&#039;s a well-established technology that&#039;s been in use for many many years (many of the oil wells I&#039;ve visited have been using some form of gas injection) and while, ideologically, I believe we should be leaving fossil fuels in the ground right now; there&#039;s no question that the technology does indeed work and has kept hundreds of US (and other) wells pumping long after they would otherwise have ceased production.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, please forgive me if I&#8217;m wrong, but I&#8217;m not sure you fully grasp the geology of oil wells. The oil does not exist in a large pool, through which a gas released below could &#8220;bubble up&#8221;. Rather, it exists as billions of individual droplets suspended under extremely high pressure within a porous stratum of rock. This porous rock is sandwiched between non-porous structures (hence why very specific geological conditions are required for an oil well / field to form) and when the top layer (the cap rock) is breached, the oil rushes upwards because of the pressure.</p>
<p>Over a period of time, however, the pressure tails off and it becomes increasingly difficult to extract the oil. Gas injection is then used to recreate / maintain enough pressure to continue pumping. This gas is injected below the reservoir (as Tim Newman pointed out) and succeeds in forcing many more of those tiny droplets towards the surface.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a well-established technology that&#8217;s been in use for many many years (many of the oil wells I&#8217;ve visited have been using some form of gas injection) and while, ideologically, I believe we should be leaving fossil fuels in the ground right now; there&#8217;s no question that the technology does indeed work and has kept hundreds of US (and other) wells pumping long after they would otherwise have ceased production.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Wadsworth</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/comment-page-1/#comment-9266</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Wadsworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:24:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/#comment-9266</guid>
		<description>Tim N, gravity and so on would suggest it is sufficient to inject the gas above the oil reservoir, as long as you have a pipe that goes down below the surface. You can&#039;t pump gas under a liquid, it just bubbles up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim N, gravity and so on would suggest it is sufficient to inject the gas above the oil reservoir, as long as you have a pipe that goes down below the surface. You can&#8217;t pump gas under a liquid, it just bubbles up.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Newman</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/comment-page-1/#comment-9264</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Newman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/#comment-9264</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;BP want to get the oil out. You’ve got to pump something in to get it out, whether that’s water, CO2 or toothpaste is neither here nor there.&lt;/em&gt;

Not necessarily.  BP could get the oil out without reinjection, but the production rates would not justify the costs of extraction.  With gas reinjection, it would have.  BP&#039;s likely option now they&#039;re not reinjecting will be to walk away, flogging the field to a much smaller independent operator (which are flourishing in the North Sea now) whose extraction costs will be much less than those of BP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>BP want to get the oil out. You’ve got to pump something in to get it out, whether that’s water, CO2 or toothpaste is neither here nor there.</em></p>
<p>Not necessarily.  BP could get the oil out without reinjection, but the production rates would not justify the costs of extraction.  With gas reinjection, it would have.  BP&#8217;s likely option now they&#8217;re not reinjecting will be to walk away, flogging the field to a much smaller independent operator (which are flourishing in the North Sea now) whose extraction costs will be much less than those of BP.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Newman</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/comment-page-1/#comment-9263</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Newman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/#comment-9263</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Assuming that CO2 can be compressed to liquid form to the same density as oil, and displaces the same volume of oil, which is mainly-carbon-with-a-bit-of-hydrogen...&lt;/em&gt;

Oil recovery by gas reinjection works by injecting the gas beneath the oil reservoir.  The pressure buildup below the oil then forces the oil up through the well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Assuming that CO2 can be compressed to liquid form to the same density as oil, and displaces the same volume of oil, which is mainly-carbon-with-a-bit-of-hydrogen&#8230;</em></p>
<p>Oil recovery by gas reinjection works by injecting the gas beneath the oil reservoir.  The pressure buildup below the oil then forces the oil up through the well.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Bliss</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/comment-page-1/#comment-9259</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Bliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/#comment-9259</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Never take a press release at face value.&lt;/i&gt;

Well, I&#039;ve learnt that the hard way, Kay Tie. My reasoning -- now well-established as faulty, no need to rub any more salt in the wound, folks -- was simply an assumption that the press-release would contain their most optimistic projections and claims, and thus the best ones to challenge.

As I&#039;ve said however... that was clearly a mistake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Never take a press release at face value.</i></p>
<p>Well, I&#8217;ve learnt that the hard way, Kay Tie. My reasoning &#8212; now well-established as faulty, no need to rub any more salt in the wound, folks &#8212; was simply an assumption that the press-release would contain their most optimistic projections and claims, and thus the best ones to challenge.</p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve said however&#8230; that was clearly a mistake.</p>
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		<title>By: Kay Tie</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/comment-page-1/#comment-9258</link>
		<dc:creator>Kay Tie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/#comment-9258</guid>
		<description>&quot;water, CO2 or toothpaste is neither here nor there.&quot;

Water is to hand (offshore, anyway) and neatly doesn&#039;t compress. CO2 is a pain in the butt. And toothpaste is really a pain in the butt since the purchasing department can&#039;t spell &quot;fluoride&quot; and thus none ever gets delivered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;water, CO2 or toothpaste is neither here nor there.&#8221;</p>
<p>Water is to hand (offshore, anyway) and neatly doesn&#8217;t compress. CO2 is a pain in the butt. And toothpaste is really a pain in the butt since the purchasing department can&#8217;t spell &#8220;fluoride&#8221; and thus none ever gets delivered.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Wadsworth</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/comment-page-1/#comment-9257</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Wadsworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/#comment-9257</guid>
		<description>BP want to get the oil out. You&#039;ve got to pump something in to get it out, whether that&#039;s water, CO2 or toothpaste is neither here nor there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BP want to get the oil out. You&#8217;ve got to pump something in to get it out, whether that&#8217;s water, CO2 or toothpaste is neither here nor there.</p>
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		<title>By: Kay Tie</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/comment-page-1/#comment-9255</link>
		<dc:creator>Kay Tie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/#comment-9255</guid>
		<description>&quot;I fail to see how this can lead to an overall reduction in CO2.&quot;

I&#039;m sure they thought of this before they invested millions in the idea. While the Government wouldn&#039;t hesitate to waste millions on a doomed-from-the-start idea, BP wouldn&#039;t be quite so wasteful of their own money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I fail to see how this can lead to an overall reduction in CO2.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure they thought of this before they invested millions in the idea. While the Government wouldn&#8217;t hesitate to waste millions on a doomed-from-the-start idea, BP wouldn&#8217;t be quite so wasteful of their own money.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Wadsworth</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/comment-page-1/#comment-9254</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Wadsworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/#comment-9254</guid>
		<description>Hmm. 

Assuming that CO2 can be compressed to liquid form to the same density as oil, and displaces the same volume of oil, which is mainly-carbon-with-a-bit-of-hydrogen; and one unit of oil burns to form 3.7 times its weight in CO2, I fail to see how this can lead to an overall reduction in CO2.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm. </p>
<p>Assuming that CO2 can be compressed to liquid form to the same density as oil, and displaces the same volume of oil, which is mainly-carbon-with-a-bit-of-hydrogen; and one unit of oil burns to form 3.7 times its weight in CO2, I fail to see how this can lead to an overall reduction in CO2.</p>
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		<title>By: Kay Tie</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/comment-page-1/#comment-9249</link>
		<dc:creator>Kay Tie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/#comment-9249</guid>
		<description>“The project would also permanently store 1.3 million tonnes of carbon dioxide, the equivalent of removing 300,000 cars from the roads.”

Never take a press release at face value. It&#039;s usually written by a (junior) marketing droids who knows nothing about the topic. A classic example was the press release from NASA JPL that had converted the dimensions of the Mars Orbiter into metres by multiplying feet by 3.28. (ironic considering the 1998 failure of the orbit due to a software fault in converting between imperial and metric units).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“The project would also permanently store 1.3 million tonnes of carbon dioxide, the equivalent of removing 300,000 cars from the roads.”</p>
<p>Never take a press release at face value. It&#8217;s usually written by a (junior) marketing droids who knows nothing about the topic. A classic example was the press release from NASA JPL that had converted the dimensions of the Mars Orbiter into metres by multiplying feet by 3.28. (ironic considering the 1998 failure of the orbit due to a software fault in converting between imperial and metric units).</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Bliss</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/comment-page-1/#comment-9247</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Bliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/#comment-9247</guid>
		<description>As the pingback suggests, I have indeed revisited the calculation, Tim.
http://numero57.net/?p=254

I&#039;d like to point out though, that I still feel your initial post on this subject was a cheap shot and I&#039;ll be responding to it at some point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the pingback suggests, I have indeed revisited the calculation, Tim.<br />
<a href="http://numero57.net/?p=254" rel="nofollow">http://numero57.net/?p=254</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to point out though, that I still feel your initial post on this subject was a cheap shot and I&#8217;ll be responding to it at some point.</p>
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		<title>By: The Quiet Road &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Oil Companies and Climate Change Redux</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/comment-page-1/#comment-9246</link>
		<dc:creator>The Quiet Road &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Oil Companies and Climate Change Redux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/#comment-9246</guid>
		<description>[...] in a response to Monbiot&#8217;s piece (via Tim Worstall) comes this: In 2005 BP proposed to build a new gas-fired power station at Peterhead, capture the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in a response to Monbiot&#8217;s piece (via Tim Worstall) comes this: In 2005 BP proposed to build a new gas-fired power station at Peterhead, capture the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Bliss</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/comment-page-1/#comment-9243</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Bliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/#comment-9243</guid>
		<description>Hi Tim,

If Professor Blunt&#039;s figures are correct, then of course my calculations need to be revised.

However, his figures are do not tally with those stated by BP.

&quot;The project would also permanently store 1.3 million tonnes of carbon dioxide, the equivalent of removing 300,000 cars from the roads.&quot;
From: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=97&amp;contentId=7006978&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BP website&lt;/a&gt;

BP do not claim that the figure is &quot;per annum&quot;, and indeed the context would appear to imply that it is not.

Once again, though, if BP have themselves under-reported the CO2 being captured then my calculations clearly require revision. But I&#039;m not sure I can really be held responsible for inaccurate data provided by those planning the project.

Tim adds: A Google search for &quot;BP Peterhead&quot; gives as result two or three a page which says this:

 &quot;When fully operational, the project would be expected to capture and store around 1.3 million tonnes of carbon dioxide each year and provide ‘carbon-free’ electricity to the equivalent of a quarter of a million UK homes.&quot; 

http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=2012968&amp;contentId=7006999

So per annum I think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tim,</p>
<p>If Professor Blunt&#8217;s figures are correct, then of course my calculations need to be revised.</p>
<p>However, his figures are do not tally with those stated by BP.</p>
<p>&#8220;The project would also permanently store 1.3 million tonnes of carbon dioxide, the equivalent of removing 300,000 cars from the roads.&#8221;<br />
From: <a href="http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=97&amp;contentId=7006978" rel="nofollow">BP website</a></p>
<p>BP do not claim that the figure is &#8220;per annum&#8221;, and indeed the context would appear to imply that it is not.</p>
<p>Once again, though, if BP have themselves under-reported the CO2 being captured then my calculations clearly require revision. But I&#8217;m not sure I can really be held responsible for inaccurate data provided by those planning the project.</p>
<p>Tim adds: A Google search for &#8220;BP Peterhead&#8221; gives as result two or three a page which says this:</p>
<p> &#8220;When fully operational, the project would be expected to capture and store around 1.3 million tonnes of carbon dioxide each year and provide ‘carbon-free’ electricity to the equivalent of a quarter of a million UK homes.&#8221; </p>
<p><a href="http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=2012968&#038;contentId=7006999" rel="nofollow">http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=2012968&#038;contentId=7006999</a></p>
<p>So per annum I think?</p>
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		<title>By: dearieme</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/comment-page-1/#comment-9237</link>
		<dc:creator>dearieme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/03/20/dear-mr-bliss/#comment-9237</guid>
		<description>The comparison still looks a bit limited to me.  If you haven&#039;t got the extra 20 million tons of oil you presumably replace it in use use of some other fuel - eg coal - and that emits CO2 too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comparison still looks a bit limited to me.  If you haven&#8217;t got the extra 20 million tons of oil you presumably replace it in use use of some other fuel &#8211; eg coal &#8211; and that emits CO2 too.</p>
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