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	<title>Comments on: Why Learn Maths?</title>
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	<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/02/20/why-learn-maths/</link>
	<description>It is all obvious or trivial except...</description>
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		<title>By: dearieme</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/02/20/why-learn-maths/comment-page-1/#comment-7647</link>
		<dc:creator>dearieme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 23:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/02/20/why-learn-maths/#comment-7647</guid>
		<description>&quot;There is not a single discipline in the hard sciences or engineering at the level of actual research that is not drenched in mathematics.&quot;  Quite: it is the language we speak.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There is not a single discipline in the hard sciences or engineering at the level of actual research that is not drenched in mathematics.&#8221;  Quite: it is the language we speak.</p>
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		<title>By: David Gillies</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/02/20/why-learn-maths/comment-page-1/#comment-7629</link>
		<dc:creator>David Gillies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/02/20/why-learn-maths/#comment-7629</guid>
		<description>pj: that was Robert Heinlein (or more accurately, his character Lazarus Long): &quot;Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house.&quot;

I have an MSc in telecomms and microwave engineering. We built a GHz transistor amp in stripline, but that was about the extent of the actual metal-bashing we did. The rest was lecture-based, and while the mathematical content was not desperately advanced (certainly less than in my physics degree) it was pervasive. My research work at university level was concerned with implementation of wireless LANs (i.e. WiFi), which were in their infancy at that point. This involved maths, and nothing BUT maths. I didn&#039;t build anything - this was all in simulation. In order to simulate the RF environment and the wireless LAN itself, I was using Gaussian white noise, convolutional codes, Viterbi decoders, alpha trackers, Kalman filters, Fourier analysis, you name it. All densely mathematical, and mostly simulated in hand-coded C++. As a sideline, I was also doing a bit of cryptography and number theory.

There is not a single discipline in the hard sciences or engineering at the level of actual research that is not &lt;i&gt;drenched&lt;/i&gt; in mathematics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pj: that was Robert Heinlein (or more accurately, his character Lazarus Long): &#8220;Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have an MSc in telecomms and microwave engineering. We built a GHz transistor amp in stripline, but that was about the extent of the actual metal-bashing we did. The rest was lecture-based, and while the mathematical content was not desperately advanced (certainly less than in my physics degree) it was pervasive. My research work at university level was concerned with implementation of wireless LANs (i.e. WiFi), which were in their infancy at that point. This involved maths, and nothing BUT maths. I didn&#8217;t build anything &#8211; this was all in simulation. In order to simulate the RF environment and the wireless LAN itself, I was using Gaussian white noise, convolutional codes, Viterbi decoders, alpha trackers, Kalman filters, Fourier analysis, you name it. All densely mathematical, and mostly simulated in hand-coded C++. As a sideline, I was also doing a bit of cryptography and number theory.</p>
<p>There is not a single discipline in the hard sciences or engineering at the level of actual research that is not <i>drenched</i> in mathematics.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/02/20/why-learn-maths/comment-page-1/#comment-7624</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 18:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/02/20/why-learn-maths/#comment-7624</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;Once you climb into the higher realms (well past A levels)&lt;/I&gt;

One could make a sarcastic comment about the current A level syllabus here.

&lt;I&gt;What practical use is the kind of maths you do at university?&lt;/I&gt;

Other have mentioned areas like engineering and cryptography. I would add weather/climate prediction, seismic studies (e.g. finding oil), computer games, web search engines, medicine, finance, agriculture and forrestry, pharma and biotech, chemical industry, telecoms, energy research (e.g. fusion), semiconductors, etc - the list is huge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Once you climb into the higher realms (well past A levels)</i></p>
<p>One could make a sarcastic comment about the current A level syllabus here.</p>
<p><i>What practical use is the kind of maths you do at university?</i></p>
<p>Other have mentioned areas like engineering and cryptography. I would add weather/climate prediction, seismic studies (e.g. finding oil), computer games, web search engines, medicine, finance, agriculture and forrestry, pharma and biotech, chemical industry, telecoms, energy research (e.g. fusion), semiconductors, etc &#8211; the list is huge.</p>
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		<title>By: windowlicker</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/02/20/why-learn-maths/comment-page-1/#comment-7612</link>
		<dc:creator>windowlicker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/02/20/why-learn-maths/#comment-7612</guid>
		<description>One of the most mystifying things about the universe is that it can be described mathematically at all. There&#039;s nothing &quot;as it ought to be&quot; about it. It&#039;s the way it is.

I&#039;d also disagree about the split between pure and applied, and see it more as a conveyor belt from today&#039;s blue sky research to tomorrow&#039;s commonplace. (G. H. Hardy said, &quot;I have never done anything &#039;useful&#039;. No discovery of mine has made, or is likely to make, directly or indirectly, for good or ill, the least difference to the amenity of the world.&quot; Now, of course, his ideas are used every time the little lock symbol lights up in your browser.)

Incredible as it may sound, a cocky Richard Feynman also once asked what good pure maths was. In reply a colleague at Los Alamos gave him a contour integration problem - which he was unable to solve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the most mystifying things about the universe is that it can be described mathematically at all. There&#8217;s nothing &#8220;as it ought to be&#8221; about it. It&#8217;s the way it is.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d also disagree about the split between pure and applied, and see it more as a conveyor belt from today&#8217;s blue sky research to tomorrow&#8217;s commonplace. (G. H. Hardy said, &#8220;I have never done anything &#8216;useful&#8217;. No discovery of mine has made, or is likely to make, directly or indirectly, for good or ill, the least difference to the amenity of the world.&#8221; Now, of course, his ideas are used every time the little lock symbol lights up in your browser.)</p>
<p>Incredible as it may sound, a cocky Richard Feynman also once asked what good pure maths was. In reply a colleague at Los Alamos gave him a contour integration problem &#8211; which he was unable to solve.</p>
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		<title>By: pj</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/02/20/why-learn-maths/comment-page-1/#comment-7598</link>
		<dc:creator>pj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/02/20/why-learn-maths/#comment-7598</guid>
		<description>On the other hand, I&#039;m still trying to get to grips with this opposable thumb thing so what do I know about it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the other hand, I&#8217;m still trying to get to grips with this opposable thumb thing so what do I know about it?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: pj</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/02/20/why-learn-maths/comment-page-1/#comment-7596</link>
		<dc:creator>pj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/02/20/why-learn-maths/#comment-7596</guid>
		<description>Didn&#039;t Asimov write that someone who didn&#039;t comprehend maths probably shouldn&#039;t be classed as human?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t Asimov write that someone who didn&#8217;t comprehend maths probably shouldn&#8217;t be classed as human?</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Newman</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/02/20/why-learn-maths/comment-page-1/#comment-7591</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Newman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/02/20/why-learn-maths/#comment-7591</guid>
		<description>Engineering is almost all maths based.  If you&#039;re crap at maths, you&#039;re gonna have to work damned hard to get through an engineering degree.  And surprisingly, I have found myself doing engineering calculations in my career.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Engineering is almost all maths based.  If you&#8217;re crap at maths, you&#8217;re gonna have to work damned hard to get through an engineering degree.  And surprisingly, I have found myself doing engineering calculations in my career.</p>
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		<title>By: Tristan Mills</title>
		<link>http://timworstall.com/2008/02/20/why-learn-maths/comment-page-1/#comment-7587</link>
		<dc:creator>Tristan Mills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timworstall.com/2008/02/20/why-learn-maths/#comment-7587</guid>
		<description>I think you miss off the land which is in between.
There&#039;s applied mathematics which describes the real world - and they do ask does this really fit the world (and if it doesn&#039;t there&#039;s something wrong). This uses the tools of pure mathematics to do it.

Then in my area there&#039;s the mathematics of computer science. This has massive practical impact, from trying to show things are secure, calculating how time or space requirements of an algorithm increase with input to cryptography and cryptanalysis which help keep our credit card details secure from eavesdroppers (but not from the corruption of someone on the other end).

Its not pure or statistics there (although there&#039;s also theoretical computer science which is really a specialised subset of pure maths)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you miss off the land which is in between.<br />
There&#8217;s applied mathematics which describes the real world &#8211; and they do ask does this really fit the world (and if it doesn&#8217;t there&#8217;s something wrong). This uses the tools of pure mathematics to do it.</p>
<p>Then in my area there&#8217;s the mathematics of computer science. This has massive practical impact, from trying to show things are secure, calculating how time or space requirements of an algorithm increase with input to cryptography and cryptanalysis which help keep our credit card details secure from eavesdroppers (but not from the corruption of someone on the other end).</p>
<p>Its not pure or statistics there (although there&#8217;s also theoretical computer science which is really a specialised subset of pure maths)</p>
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